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 Getting to Know Our New EANT President – Mary Anne Wampler— An Interview by Matt Ahrens | November 21, 2011
Matt Ahrens: And, we're recording… Mary Anne Wampler: Nothing to make a 6 nervous like being recorded. Matt: Yep. OK, let's get started. How did you come to be EANT President? Mary Anne: I received a call from (Former EANT President) Cathy Wright wanting to know if I'd be interested in filling an opening they had on the board. Somehow Cathy helped me come to understand that it was time to be involved and to give back, so I joined the board and then about a year ago became the Vice President in that next election. Matt: Why did you think it was time to get involved and, as you say, "give back?" Mary Anne: I think there was a yearning inside of me to thank the organization, the work, and the community for all that they've given me. It felt like a sort of calling. "OK, now it's time. This study, these people, this community have given me so much. It's time to step up and do what I can, in whatever way I can to contribute differently than I have in the past, through leadership. Matt: How did you get introduced to the Enneagram? Mary Anne: My friend and therapist, Marilyn Williams was doing her certification I can't even remember how many years ago and asked if I wanted to be one of her folks for a typing interview. I said, "Yeah, sure, that sounds fun." And I've never looked back. I was like, "I think this is fascinating, what is this about?" I went to a Helen Palmer workshop that was going to be in the area the next month. I was in -- hook, line, and sinker. Matt: When did you do your EPTP? Mary Anne: I certified in 1996. I probably started a couple of years before then because everything was happening in California then and I had to go back and forth so I started in something like '94 or '95. Matt: You use the Enneagram in your business, when did you start the business and when did you start using the Enneagram? Mary Anne: My wonderful business partner, Theresa Gale, and I started our business, Transform, Inc., in 1996. We've been using the Enneagram in business since day one and it quickly became core to our business model. We were pioneers in using the Enneagram in business. At the time, some in the Enneagram community thought the system was too deep to apply in business. We thought otherwise and my counterphobic nature came in handy here. We have business clients who have been using the Enneagram with us for fifteen years. Matt: You do some open-enrollment workshops too, isn't that right? Mary Anne: We were honored to sponsor Helen's visits in the DC area for many years. Besides working with our clients individually using the Enneagram, we are expanding leadership programs where we bring our business clients together to explore the Enneagram in community. Our clients find this approach unique and powerful. A few years ago, we also did a leadership conference with Peter (O'Hanrahan) and David (Daniels) in Alexandria, VA where we had probably a hundred people working the Enneagram and leadership. Matt: You are pretty steeped in Enneagram and you are pretty steeped in Leadership. You, yourself, are a leader. What do you have in mind for EANT?
One is the branding, the positioning. How do we get the "Narrative Tradition" to the world? Not just the Enneagram, we're doing that, but how do we let people know that there is this methodology? How do we support our teachers and their narrative teaching? The second thing is how do we get the Enneagram in the Narrative Tradition to the next generation. Leslie Hershberger started me thinking about this. Perhaps it's my 6-ness, but I think the more enlightened the next generation is the better chance we have of dealing with some of our current societal struggles. Also, what a gift it would have been for me personally to have had the Enneagram earlier in my life. I want to share that with people. Thirdly, I want to support the board and the community in their passions for this work. And, I want to have a really amazing 2012 conference. Matt: Wow, that sounds like a full agenda. Mary Anne: Yes, we'll see where we go. Matt: I want to ask you about that first item of the Narrative Tradition, why is that so important? Mary Anne: That's a big question, Matt and one that I don't know I've fully developed the answer to, one I don't know if any of us has developed an answer to. It is an experience, a transformative experience of people being real with each other. People accepting and having compassion, and having understanding. I have never seen another methodology out there that comes close to that experience of being able to go inside, do the inner work, the inner journey, and also being able to share that in community with other people who are also on the journey. It is nothing less than life-changing. Matt: I think that's a pretty good answer. Mary Anne: So, now, I want to ask you, what do you think, Matt? Matt: I think what the narrative does… and like you I haven't really thought through this very well, but my initial response is that I think the Narrative, by definition, takes the theory and puts it into practice. It's not just a concept it's a real life experience people are having as we're walking on this earth and living this life and we're doing it coming from these nine different perspectives. We get to teach one another through the narrative, and we get to teach ourselves in the moment. There is something healing about telling our story. When we tell our story -- and I'm thinking here of Dan Siegel our keynote speaker from our DC conference five years ago talking about importance of telling our story -- it transforms our brains and brings us mental health and spiritual growth. It's an amazing experience. Mary Anne: It's a community where I feel accepted. I find through the acceptance that my shame relaxes into self acceptance. Personally, that's a big deal for me. Matt: Yes, and we inspire each other with our honesty. We see one person "going there" and it gives us permission to go there ourselves and that, in turn, inspires someone else. Mary Anne: Imagine if we could find a way to describe that to folks who haven't had the experience! Matt: OK, tell me about this conference. Who is Tara Brach and why do I want to come experience her? Mary Anne: Tara is leading western teacher of Buddhist meditation with an amazing sanga in the Washington, D.C. area (Insight Meditation Community of Washington). She is also a clinical psychologist and the author of Radical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life With the Heart of a Buddha and the upcoming book, True Refuge -- Three Gateways to a Fearless Heart. In my experience, she is a being who's practicing enlightenment who has an amazing way about her. She teaches very practically through stories - just like in our Narrative Tradition. Matt: I've listened to some of her talks online and find her to be incredibly warm, accessible, interesting, practical, deep, and just lovely. I'm looking forward to having her with our community. Matt: What else can you tell me about the conference for next year? Mary Anne: I am in the process of considering five different venues; all in the northern Virginia/Washington D.C. area. There will be more to come on that soon. Sandra Smith is on board as the conference consultant again for next year, and I'm sure she'll put together another great team and another great conference. Matt: It's really nice to have Sandra in that role to get the continuation from year to year so we don't need to reinvent the wheel every time. Mary Anne: I agree completely. Matt: Shifting gears here, we are, after all, the Narrative Tradition, what is your narrative about being EANT President? Mary Anne: Being in this role is a very interesting journey for me. As a 6, I've been observing myself stepping into this role; the excitement it brings and the angst that it brings and the doubt it brings… what is my story about this? One of the reasons I said yes, and one of the reasons I'm excited is that I get to work with an amazing group of people on the board. Every person is committed, and enthusiastic, and creative, and that is truly a gift. Matt: It's a really interesting group of people, not just the board but also the entire community; people from all over the world from all walks of life with the common thread of the Enneagram. It's neat. Matt: Back to your journey, what was it like when Cathy asked you to join the board and later to run for Vice President? Mary Anne: I was honored, I was excited, and, I didn't feel like I deserved it; all at the same time. And, I was wondering, "why me?" Matt: …and then you said yes… Mary Anne: and then I said yes… Matt: And then what went through your mind? Mary Anne: I was excited, and nervous, wondering why me? My attention shifted back and forth between excitement and doubt. It really did. And it still does. Matt: Is courage playing a role in any of this? Mary Anne: I think that's the exciting part. Living fully, embracing it, taking my place as part of this community. The courage to honor all of this work I've done. You know, it's the success stuff that frightens me as a 6. Matt: What if you are successful? Mary Anne: I was thinking about it the other day. I've heard that inside every 9 there is a little superstar wanting to get out. Maybe that's, in a way, also true for 6s. Not the superstar per se but owning our own authority, owning our own wisdom. Acknowledging it. It's one thing to acknowledge it to myself but another to step into it. I get nervous just talking about it with you. Matt: What makes you nervous about it? Mary Anne: I wouldn't want to seem boastful. That's just not my way. Matt: If it makes any difference I haven't heard any boastfulness in what you've said so far. Mary Anne: Thank you… and I'm not sure that makes any difference… (laughs) Matt: We hear about 6s and "responsibility," are you feeling any responsibility with this? Mary Anne: I take this seriously. It's a little bit of a call to duty. I don't think I have a lot of duty subtype but maybe I have more than I thought? I have always felt loyal to our work, in the very best sense of the word. Matt: I think I went though this phase in my Enneagram journey of recognizing the habit and thinking that if I was engaging in the habit – you just named "duty," I might name "harmonizing" - it was somehow something I "shouldn't" be doing. Then I flipped it over and think, "No, I just need to be aware that I'm doing it." Sometimes harmonizing is helpful; sometimes duty is helpful, it's the going unconscious to it that's the problem. Mary Anne: There's much I love about being a 6. Matt: What do you love about it? Mary Anne: I love asking just the right question at just the right time. I love my intuition. I love the way I think about things. I love the loyalty. I love my ability to walk in different worlds at the same time. Matt: What can this organization do to support you in the next year? Mary Anne: Be kind, be honest, and be loving. And I think those are things this organization already does. Matt: I think so. That's our strength. Mary Anne: It's interesting to me to have the contrast between leading this work in business -- even deep work in the business structures I'm familiar with -- versus doing this in the non-profit arena with a focus on the cause rather than on specific goals and results. Matt: By its nature, it's different (than a business). It's people coming together because of a common interest, volunteering… Mary Anne: All organizations have a defined culture. Businesses have a particular culture. We (at Transform, Inc.) have the pleasure of working with businesses that have a culture of self-development. Many of our clients get it, that the more developed they are as leaders, that the more self-aware their people are, the more productivity and the happier workplace they will have, and at the end of the day that they are going to win. Matt: I agree, and hopefully the same for EANT. Whatever winning means. Mary Anne: Winning means winning! Matt: So, I'd like to check in regularly with you on not just EANT – that too – but also on your journey in this role as a Six. Mary Anne: OK, but you need to give up the journey of the Nine if I'm giving up the journey of the 6, OK? Matt: Well, of course, that's what happens… Matt: and the journey continues…
For more than 25 years, Mary Anne Wampler, co-founder of Transform, Inc., has been helping companies – ranging from small businesses to Fortune 500 corporations – break through the proverbial glass ceiling using the Enneagram, a profoundly revealing personality profiling tool that facilitates leadership development and personal transformation. Mary Anne, who has been quoted in nationally known magazine, “Selling Power,” is the co-author of “Wake Up and Sell,” a book which offers a breakthrough approach to sales mastery. Her commitment to clients with the heartfelt belief that “the company with the best talent wins” has inspired and focused the efforts of thousands of professionals from all industries. Mary Anne is an ESNT-certified teacher. Mary Anne can be reached by email at: EANTboard@enneagramassociation.org
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Mary Anne: That is continuing to formulate, and there are two or three things I certainly have passion around.
Matt Ahrens is Past President of the EANT, TALK JOURNAL editor, and continues to serve the EANT as head of the technical committee, and as an ongoing advisor. With an MBA in Supply Chain Management and an undergrad degree in Economics, Matt owns his own consulting practice, "
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